selling house with wood flooring problem
Hello. We were under contract to sell our home and discovered that we have active powder post beetles in our wood floors (we put them in ourselves 3 years ago). Terminix recommended stripping the floors bare and treating with BoraCare but could only provide a one year guarantee to retreat (but the floors would have to be stripped again to treat at that point at the expense of our buyer). We informed the buyer of their recommendation and we were willing to do the refinishing and treatment, but the bank pulled out and would not fund the loan due to the nature of the problem and the fact that we would only have a one year guarantee. We have read to "wait and see" or strip and treat, but we will need to move from this home in the next 3 years (at most) and it will be next to impossible to sell with a "wait and see" or a one year guarantee for treatment but not finishing expenses. We are currently thinking we should rip all of the flooring out to completely take care of the problem. The inspector found no evidence of ppb damage in our crawlspace or the subflooring. We only have one small area that's "active" but it has hundreds of holes, has spread to 3-4 boards and we find the white frass every once in awhile. What is your recommendation for the best guarantee for future buyers? We just want this house to be sellable and not saddle ourselves or anyone else with a huge problem!!!
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Comments on selling house with wood flooring problem
admin @ 6:43 pm
As I see it, you have several "options".
1) Do nothing. I'm afraid this will prevent the future sale of your home (at a decent price) so I don't think this is a good choice.
2) Have Terminix treat but you know the limits of this option. I'm surprised to hear they'd only offer a short term guarantee since the product will last many years. This is especially true when the treatment is applied in a sheltered area like the inside of the home.
3) Have some other company handle the treatment. Since most buyers are wary of homes with past problems, I don't know that even having it treated at all is a good resolution because in the end, having the problem (active or inactive) is just one more reason for them to keep looking elsewhere and to forego your home in their search. Additionally, it could take some time to locate a company willing to offer different "conditions" so in the end, it may not be a good option either. However, it does warrant some more research to see.
4) Since you are "do it yourselfer", ripping out the old floor and replacing it with new flooring. Before finishing the floor, treat with Boracare to insure there is no risk of a problem. In the end you'll be removing the old activity and protecting the floor the way it should have been when first installed. To me this is the best option. True, it might cost more but in the end you should be able to sell the house to larger target market. Additionally, you should be able to do so with a clear conscious. Lastly, there will be no hassles with the bank or home inspectors.
Good luck,
Jonathan
guest @ 7:37 pm
Thank you so much for your quick and detailed response!! That is such great information. We're thinking that if we rip out the wood flooring, we will replace with tile and carpet (I'm a little anti-wood flooring right now!).
Last question…if we rip out the wood floors would you go ahead and treat the subflooring and crawlspace with BoraCare (or whatever the pest control company recommends) for ppb before laying the tile/carpet just to ensure no problems in the future (even though no evidence was found in these areas?). I truly appreciate your help with this matter. We're getting so many opinions from people who have no experience with ppb that we really value have the opinion of someone with experience.
admin @ 8:19 pm
First, tiles and rug might be the logical answer based on some recent events but in general, nothing helps the sale of a home these days more then certain amenities or unique qualities. One such amenity is hardwood floors. I have them on both levels of my home and even if the buyers "hate" them, they can always cover them with rugs. The reverse isn't true meaning you must do a lot more preparation to install hardwoods over tiles or a rug so if a buyer really wanted hardwoods, they could turn away from your home. I've even seen where such an install is used as a leverage to get the price reduced where the buyers make an offer that's based on them installing the wood floors over tiles or carpeting. My point is it might seem like the logical choice to install tiles or rug but in most cases the hardwood is always the more logical option as it rarely ever hurts to have and is so much easier to change out and the reverse is not true.
Second, consider the impact of changing to tile or rug compared to the rest of the home. You didn't say if such a change would be "out of character" with the rest of the house so don't make this change unless it sticks to the homes style.
Third, if you do opt to do any work, the hardwoods installed now must go. Since no one really knows what's underneath, it's too early to tell what (if anything) should be done underneath to sub-flooring/floor joists. As explained in our article, most species of this beetle prefer hardwoods and ignore pine. If the sub-flooring did have activity, it would most likely be something else (insect wise) and obviously a treatment would be warranted. And quite frankly, even if you didn't see much of anything in these boards, treating with the Boracare is fairly inexpensive and easy to do so taking care and putting down a little "insurance" would be a wise investment of time and effort. It could also end up holding off some kind of unforeseen invasion that could negatively affect the sale of the home down the line.
J.
guest @ 10:19 pm
Okay I'm so sorry to bother you again, but you are literally the only person we can find who is knowledgeable about ppb and can offer an opinion. Terminix isn't even responding to my request for an official recommendation. Needless to say, we're going to get at least one other pest control company to inspect and recommend and possibly a hardwood flooring company. Since previously emailing you we have some new information…we've spoken to two lenders (one of whom was the original buyer's lender and said the bank did not cancel the loan it was the buyer who cancelled and he guessed they just didn't want to tell us). Anyway, both lenders said they would simply go with the Terminix recommendation to refinish, treat and document everything and we shouldn't have an issue with the banks. They said this situation is not that different from a home with termite damage which they deal with quite often. Sooo we are very tempted to refinish and treat b/c we love our floors and we don't have the money to install new wood flooring.
Anyway, our question to you is: In your experience with ppb, in which an active infestation is identified in one small area of the flooring only (neither inspector found any issues with the crawlspace or subflooring but we'll have that area treated too), does refinishing the floor and treating the bare wood with Boracare work as a total solution? We've only found activity (the frass piles) in 3-4 boards and we're planning on replacing that section. What has us worried and questioning this decision is that the Terminix guy said he'd seen it go both ways with the treatment. He said he's seen people treat and never have an issue again and he's seen people treat and the ppb are back in 6 months. From what we've read online, the Boracare should completely treat the problem and last for years. Have I mentioned you're my new best friend? Thank you so much for all of the wonderful information. It's truly invaluable in this situation when we can't find anyone willing to make a recommendation! I promise we'll leave you alone after this!
Thanks again!!
admin @ 8:13 am
I've always said you can't have too many "best friends" so I'll add you to my list. Down the road this comes in handy so keep your best friend in mind after you move and need some pest control supplies!
Regarding your most recent quandary; here's my take. First, the banks are dead on. This situation isn't really any different (except for the pest involved) regarding the mode of action the lenders and buyers are forced to take when faced with "wood destroying insects". Since they write the note on the structure, they must make sure it's safe and sound and won't loose value down the road so this is just a safeguard more than anything and perfectly normal.
Second, you are right in believing that a good application of the Boracare should resolved the problem. Wood flooring is thin and can be penetrated through and through so there is no way it can fail. Treating it properly should insure this to hold up and take care of any insect living inside the wood which "eats" it.
Third, as our article explains, PPB are wood species specific. If they're in the hardwoods, they can't live in softwoods which is what the house is made of so again, you're right in thinking the problem should be limited and easy to knock out.
Fourth, I'm thinking you may have identified the one flaw of the Boracare treatment and the possible "misunderstanding" of this flaw regarding what the inspector said about Boracare failing. The flaw of Boracare is that it only kills feeding larva and not pupae. But pupae are finished eating so how do they die you ask? As explained in our article, they are in this stage to change and molt to adults. When ready they'll come out. Many times this happens 6-12 months after the flooring is treated and when they do come out they don't die because they're not eating the wood! So what happens? More exit holes in the floor leading everyone to believe the problem is still active. In most cases this isn't true. What is really happening is just that; the larvae are all dead but the remaining pupae will be seen emerging until they're all used up. This can take some time and all the while people believe the problem is still active so it can be very confusing. Worse yet, the responsibility for the problem almost always comes back to whoever owned the home before.
And the "misunderstanding" I mentioned is regarding the inspector in that he either misunderstands what the exit holes mean (not that the treatment failed) or that he didn't explain it to you adequately and you misunderstood him. Regardless, it does point out one fact that's always been a problem with this ordeal; if the pupae do start to emerge and anyone sees it that bought the home, what do you think they're going to do? They'll ask for a re-treatment. And over the years the termite companies have learned this pattern is there so they are tough with the warranties they give out. This is because even with the problem being the "end" of an old problem, there is no way they can avoid having to treat and in the end they loose. To avoid this risk, they don't offer long term contracts or they don't even really want to do the treatment.
So unfortunately there is no way you can be 100% sure some pupae won't emerge following the treatment. In my mind it is about a 50-50 deal. However, in all the cases where we followed up afterwards 1-2 years after the pupae emerged and we didn't retreat, the infestations waned and were gone. So these jobs turned out to be "good" with the first attempt even though they didn't look like it for awhile.
In summary you'll have to make the decision which way to go. I still feel treating the old wood is risky but you have to make the call. Good luck!
Jonathan